MyDD :: How do we beat the b**ch? Excellent question.

How do we beat the b**ch? Excellent question.

by hekebolos, Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:25:49 PM EST

It is definitely not my standard practice to do this. And yet, in so many places, including a few voices that are still here, you will see some individuals who are so upset about Hillary Clinton's loss, and are so opposed to Barack Obama because of what they perceive as the sexism of his campaign, that they are going to vote for John McCain.

Yes, this guy.

More where that came from.

Yes, indeed. So dismayed by the ascension to the nomination of a candidate who dared to call someone "sweetie" that they're going to vote for this guy:

Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days.

So incensed by a campaign that supposedly disrespects women that they're going to vote for this paragon of respect for women:

McCain was still married and living with his wife in 1979 while, according to The New York Times' Nicholas Kristof, "aggressively courting a 25-year-old woman who was as beautiful as she was rich." McCain divorced his wife, who had raised their three children while he was imprisoned in Vietnam, then launched his political career with his new wife's family money. In 2000, McCain managed to deflect media questioning about his first marriage with a deft admission of responsibility for its failure.

Someone who will forever more beyond the old ways of using government power to do personal favors for mistresses, right?

[Iseman] had been turning up with him at fund-raisers, visiting his offices and accompanying him on a client's corporate jet. Convinced the relationship had become romantic, some of his top advisers intervened to protect the candidate from himself -- instructing staff members to block the woman's access, privately warning her away and repeatedly confronting him, several people involved in the campaign said on the condition of anonymity.

When news organizations reported that Mr. McCain had written letters to government regulators on behalf of the lobbyist's client, the former campaign associates said, some aides feared for a time that attention would fall on her involvement.

Want to really get back at the pro-Obama media for making a comment that Chelsea Clinton was pimped out? Then by all means, vote for the guy that made this joke about Chelsea instead:

Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno.

That'll show em...something. Not sure what.

So go ahead! Strike a blow or women by defeating the oppressive and sexist Obama machine! And vote for...the disrespectful gold-digging two-timing adulterer who resorts to doing political favors for mistresses and cracks vicious jokes about the teenage first daughter!

Seems like everyone needs a reminder from time to time. And hell, I haven't even started on their actual policy positions.

Tags: John McCain (all tags)

Permalink :: 71 Comments :: Post a Comment

I absolutely understand (2.00 / 3)

your point, but I don't think this is the best way to win over undecided Clinton supporters. Those people just need some space. They need some time to think. Most of them will come around, but pointing out that McCain is a sexist isn't going to help them "come to Obama".

Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.

by sricki on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:29:36 PM EST

Agreed... (2.00 / 1)

color me surprised this evening when I not only saw Linfar's diary here...but, saw her standing up to those pushing McCain (or a McCain/Clinton ticket) on Hillary's Voice.

Slowly but surely, I believe that most (as in the VAST majority) of Hillary's supporters will 'come around'.....time and space (and some 'come to Jesus' discussions from within their ranks) is what is needed. What is NOT needed is browbeating from longtime Obama supporters.

(ps: Hillary's Voice is currently down. I wonder if Alegre pulled it due to it's having become heavy with the McCain promoting?)

by Kysen on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:35:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nix my 'ps'... (2.00 / 1)

it's back up.

(and, just in case I was not clear in my above comment....I am impressed with Linfar's actions and glad to see her solid intent in defeating McCain)

by Kysen on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:37:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nix my 'ps'... (none / 0)

There is a lot of tension right now. Hillary's concession is less that 12 hours away. The members of our group are having difficulty sorting through their emotions. Selectively reporting on our comments, comments made during a difficult and emtional time, may get you a lot of mojo here, but it is incredibly immature.

Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain

by psychodrew on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:29:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nix my 'ps'... (2.00 / 1)

If you'd stop and pay attention for a moment you'd see I was speaking positively of Linfar's comments AND making the assumption that Alegre, like Linfar, was a Hillary Supporter that supports Hillary enough to realize that a vote to 'punish' McCain would also punish Hillary. In fact, even though the site is back up, I still believe that Alegre knows that a vote for McCain goes against everything that Hillary has fought for her entire life.

I don't give a rat's ass about 'mojo'. I give props where props are due...and Linfar deserved props...far more so for speaking up in the lion's den (at least currently it is for her view) than she does for doing so in a place where folks already agree with her. It was a hard thing to do for her and I thought she deserved recognition of that.

As to folks having difficulty...I know, really, I know...my wife is a Hillary supporter. Here is a reply to BPK80 where I mention this:

I know you are not evil.
If you were I'd have a real hard time closing my eyes at night....my wife is a Hillary Supporter!! ;)

That is why I say I can understand sitting out, or writing in Hillary's name. I know how disappointed my wife is and I have told her I would support her in either of those decisions. Voting for McCain, however, is a whole nother thing.

That is why I pointed out that the above comment was an oxymoron. A truly ardent supporter of Clinton would not support McCain...be it out of spite or otherwise. To do so goes against all that Clinton stands for and has fought for.

So, yeah, while I TOTALLY get the anger, the disappointment, the sadness.....I flat cannot swallow the decision to vote for McCain. THAT is what I speak out against.

Peace.

As to my maturity level, I stand by every comment I've made here, feel free to read thru them. I don't even lash out at trolls....I just post a funny video...figure instead of getting angry ya might as well laugh. Also, unlike others, I don't feel a need to resort to name calling and taunts on a message board.

Zoinks! It's mad late, I'm loopy tired and I have used more words than I probably needed to to say "Jeez, read it again, I was complimenting Linfar and Alegre AND Hillary!".

Peace to you and yours.
Goodnight.

by Kysen on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 04:32:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nix my 'ps'... (none / 0)

You were speaking positively of linfar here. I appreciate that because I think that linfar has gotten a bum rap here. However, you weren't speaking positively of New Hampster here and you certainly weren't being polite here when you said that the Hillary's Voice members were "out there."

That group was created so that Hillary's blogosphere supporters could share ideas and support one another while we were under heavy fire at the big orange blog whose name I dare not write. It is not a private forum whose members took a blood oath of secrecy. There is no expectation of privacy. You are entitled to copy and paste our words wherever you like.

Right now, Hillary's supporters, as you well know, are upset and emotional. Many of the people in that group have been working hard for Hillary and have gotten the shit kicked out of them on the internet. New Hampster, for example, whose words you quoted on another diary, worked very hard for Hillary in New Hampshire. But his work didn't end there. He later went to several different states, rented motel rooms at his own expense, and went door-to-door for Hillary.

What you are reading right now is a lot of venting. We need time to sort through our emotions and figure out where we are going from here. While it is your right to post that information here on MyDD, it is disrespectful to those Hillary's Voice members who need a place where they can express what they are feeling.

Perhaps I chose my words incorrectly when I said you were immature. To me, lurking on a message board under someone else's name and cross-posting comments written at such a difficult and emotional time to make people look bad is far more than immature. I was more direct when I spoke out about this in the forum and I didn't want to use that kind of language here on MyDD. It is inappropriate to attack other users and we have all been making an effort to raise the level of discourse. If you want to know my true feelings on this, go back to the forum and read my message. I signed it with my MyDD username.

Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain

by psychodrew on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:17:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nix my 'ps'... (2.00 / 1)

Also, unlike others, I don't feel a need to resort to name calling and taunts on a message board.

Ahhh, having (per your request) checked your comments over there....I see you are one of the 'others' I was speaking of. That tells me all I need to know about attempting further civil discourse with you.

Oh well, at least you have the sense not to vote for McCain.

Peace to you and yours.

(can't wait to tell my wife that I am 'infamous' over there....she will be as amused as I am....I've never had a fan club before!)

by Kysen on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:44:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I wouldn't call it a fan club. (none / 0)

After all, we have no idea who you are.

I stand by my comment.

Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain

by psychodrew on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:09:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

lol (2.00 / 1)

you are being a troll and a trojan horse, no matter how you try to defend it.

by Teacher1956 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:36:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lol (2.00 / 1)

*yawn

by Kysen on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:42:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Allow me to translate. (2.00 / 1)

"*yawn" is troll for, "I concede the point."

Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain

by psychodrew on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:13:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nix my 'ps'... (none / 0)

Worse than immature -- it's a deplorable thing to do. Tantamount to wiretapping private conversations and broadcasting them.

***A

by adrienne4dean on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:27:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I understand your concern (none / 0)

but there will be some (hillaryis44 and elsewhere) who will simply not reconcile themselves to Obama and might actually vote for McCain as a punitive measure.

The idea is to dissuade a rather small demographic.

by hekebolos on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:39:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not helpful (2.00 / 1)

Excusing sexism with worse sexism isn't really going to win people over. And your arguments throughout don't make you the best spokesperson.

Please consider taking the very good advice of some of the others and just back off for a bit.

by Natasha Chart on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:29:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

nobody has yet explained (2.00 / 1)

to me concretely how Obama's campaign was sexist.

by hekebolos on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:35:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Excusing sexism? (2.00 / 1)

What sexism are you talking about? That's a hell of an accusation between progressive Democrats.

by Sun Dog on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:47:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I understand your concern (2.00 / 1)

it's not the quotes or the content really but it does seem the diarist is dripping with disdain and disgust at a wide range of people in an unnecessary way. and that could keep the flames going for some people. it is the tone more then anything that could be found lacking.

by zerosumgame on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:55:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I absolutely understand (2.00 / 2)

I think this is actually very helpful. I say that as someone who once also said I'd vote for McCain if Hillary stole the nomination from Obama. I thought I meant it, too, because I was under the false impression that McCain was truly bi-partisan and independent.

Then I saw some clips of him saying and supporting some outrageous policies. I was in shock over the horribly sexist statement about his wife (still am), couldn't believe he said "bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran." And then I came to the fast conclusion that there's no way I could vote for McCain under any circumstances.

by ProfessorReo on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

where was Obama denoucing it, where was the (2.00 / 3)

DNC denouncing it - you guys just don't get it! The resentment is just much deeper than you think because McCain is not a democrat so there is no expectations from him but for Obama and the party to sit silently while the abuse went on for months on months is unforgivable!

by suzieg on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:57:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

so, you're saying (2.00 / 3)

you expect McCain to be a sexist misogynist, so it's okay to vote for him?

by hekebolos on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:03:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: so, you're saying (none / 0)

Which would be okay if the DNC were actually anywhere near the same level of sexist. But take a look around. Time was, there was talk of McCain picking a female VP. Look how long that lasted. Look how long Condoleeza Rice, who could have been a formidable ally, lasted as a possibility.

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:34:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There are people (2.00 / 1)

on both sides, as this diary implicitly suggests, who simply can't get out of campaign mode. Just as I have begged Obama supporters to be patient with Clinton supporters who haven't worked through their feelings yet, I guess I will beg Clinton supporters to be patient with Obama supporters who haven't worked through their feelings yet.

Another Hillary Supporter for Obama!

by Beltway Dem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:54:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I could not agree more (2.00 / 1)

hekebolos

there is a time for mourning...and the that time deserves respect...stop swooping in like this or you will just drive clinton supporters away.

it's not as bad as dancing on her grave but almost.

YOu want to convince we should share your passion for the person yo supported all along...well then say some nice tings about her.....show us you understand why we supported her.....

And that's far more important to you and to your candidate...becasue if you don't know why we cared for her and why she represented us...then you can't begin to get those people to vote for Obama.

The message Obama used to persuade supporters like you obviously didn't persuade the other half of the Democratic pary...it would behoove you and him to figure out what she said that did persuade us.

by debcoop on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:34:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How do we beat the b**ch? Excellent question. (2.00 / 1)

It would be naive to believe there wasn't a subtext for some--that they were never "for" Hillary as much as they were "against" Obama. I don't think its a significant number--I'm sure there are very few indeed--but they certainly exist and will try to 'sway' the blogosphere.

Of course, we at MyDD know better.

"The only way I can lose this election is if I'm caught in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy."

by AK Democrat on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:46:56 PM EST

the idea (2.00 / 2)

is to make sure the McBloggers aren't effective in taking advantage of the despondent emotions of Hillary's fervent supporters.

by hekebolos on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:51:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

check this thread - i think there's one here. (2.00 / 1)

"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

by canadian gal on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:55:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the idea (none / 0)

I prefer the term McTroll--and I'm sure Hillary's fervent supporters know better, but it's an absolute truth they are going to be wooed by John McCain. He'll select Kay Bailey Hutchison as his running mate and she'll talk about the historic magnitude of the first woman in the White House, urging Hillary's supporters to get on board.

And such baiting will probably happen here.

By the time November rolls around, the urgency won't be so great and cooler heads will prevail; the concept of voting for an anti-choice, c-word dropping, Chelsea bad-joke telling, flip-flopping fool like John McCain will have long since past. Gloria Steinem, endorsing the Presidency of Barack Obama today, isn't the first and won't be the last to realize the "fierce urgency of now."

Nearly all will follow.

In that vein, I salute Linfar!

"The only way I can lose this election is if I'm caught in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy."

by AK Democrat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:14:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

yes (2.00 / 1)

because Hillary supporters are over emotional morons who can't think for themselves, right?

You are just digging deeper and you don't even know it or why. Could you be more sexist please?

by Teacher1956 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:41:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

no, just some. (none / 0)

just as there were plenty of Obama supporters over on other blogs who, after (real or imagined) offenses from the Clinton campaign, said that they would not vote for Hillary and would vote for McCain.

And I had to convey the exact same message to them.

No, I'm not sexist. I'm a Democrat who wants to make sure McCain doesn't win.

There are plenty of Clinton supporters in this discussion who are saying that now isn't the right time to bring this up while their fellow Clintonistas are still so emotionally raw. Are these Clinton supporters sexist too? It's somehow sexist to say that people who worked tirelessly to support a candidate might be upset that they lost?

Your accusations of sexism are inherently inconsistent, and it's a shame that you have to resort to personal attacks in a discussion of ideas.

by hekebolos on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:11:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How do we beat the b**ch? Excellent question. (2.00 / 1)

Maybe some of you missed it, but I've read a lot of blogs and comments posted this past year and I have read much worse written by democrats about Hillary Clinton.

I hardly think comparing these two instances of McCain behaving badly to the thousands of vulgar comments made about her that came from democrats.

I don't understand why there is such concern over McCain, but no concern over the wall of silence when democratic women complained.

Some don't appear to dismiss these women as a small percentage. Bush won Florida by a small percentage, 500 or so votes which gave him the electoral votes to become POTUS.

"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony

by feelfree on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:01:52 AM EST

feelfree, sorry to say so (2.00 / 2)

but you missed the point.

You compared a candidate to the supporters of the other candidate.

Compare McCain's record (described above) to Obama's record. I've seen a lot of nasty stuff about Obama from pro-Clinton sites, so that cuts both ways.

by hekebolos on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:07:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feelfree, sorry to say so (2.00 / 2)

I'm absolutely puzzled by this phenomenon - people conflating what Obama supporters say with Obama himself, and using the words of supporters to justify not voting for Obama. I don't get it.

When I once thought of voting for McCain if Hillary stole the nomination from Obama, it was because of my negative views of Hillary Clinton. I could care less what her supporters said or think.

Yet, I hear time and time again someone saying they won't vote for Obama primarily because of the nasty things Obama bloggers have said. What's going on?

by ProfessorReo on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:14:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Either real concern or concern trolling (none / 0)

always hard to say - who knows what lurks?

Either way that much is over.

I agree with the diarists intent, but I also agree that this is an unfortunate manner and timing to exercise that intent.

...and top of the rec list...

sigh

If this were my diary I would delete it, perhaps just edit the tone, but at least retitle it.

-chris

"A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are for. Sail out to sea and do new things." Admiral Grace Hopper, computer pioneer

by chrisblask on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:21:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not the candidate but anonymous people (2.00 / 1)

saying nasty stuff about Hillary. Some anonymous person online identifying themselves as an Obama supporter and saying something nasty. I've seen that pointed to as a reason not to vote for Obama.

Lame talking heads on the teevee saying dumb and nasty things about Hillary. That gets pointed to as a reason not to vote for Obama.

The problem with arguing this stuff right now is that it's born out of frustration and the heat of fierce competition. And intense dissapointment.

I think it is important for people to see what a jerkwad McCain is. I could just about puke when I see him kissing up to Hillary's angry supporters. So I understand the diary. But it might just be a matter of time for most.

Messing around with McCain now probably isn't going to stand the test of time. He's just an assault on everything good Hillary has ever worked for. It's a slap in her face to vote for McCain. Hillary Clinton will be empowered by having a Democrat in the White House. The platform matters. That's what will win people over.

On a personal level, I can't stand it. I'm passionate as hell about civil liberties and dignity. I have two young daughters. I don't support sexist candidates. Bill Clinton may have been the closest to that I've come. So this stuff right now is pretty tough to take.

by Sun Dog on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:01:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feelfree, sorry to say so (none / 0)

Obama's "you're likable enough" comment came right of his mouth.

One vulgar comment came from a McCain supporter, he is being held responsible for her words. The video of the supporter asking him this question is repeatedly being used as a measure of his lack of respect for women.

You say I shouldn't use the same standard for Obama.

I don't see the difference.

"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony

by feelfree on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:24:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feelfree, sorry to say so (2.00 / 2)

I don't even think Obama meant "you're likable enough" as a mean thing to say, and she certainly didn't seem to take it that way, if you watch it again. Why the hell would he say something like that? And not just say it in response to being asked, interject it as something he wanted to get in there. Just look at him slowly starting to grin after he says it.

BUT... even if he did decide to insult her for no good reason at a moment when she felt really crappy... "You're likable enough" is not sexist. Barack Obama never smiled as Hillary was called a bitch. He never accepted it as a valid comment. John McCain did. What exactly is confusing about this?

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:51:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feelfree, sorry to say so (none / 0)

What about the sexist statement that McCain said about his wife? You know, calling his wife a "trollop and a "c***" to his wife in front of reporters.

Or, the really tasteless, sexist joke McCain made about Chelsea Clinton's appearance.

by ProfessorReo on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:40:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feelfree, sorry to say so (none / 0)

In my opinion the DNC's silence on sexism is far more damning than anything McCain has said.

"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony

by feelfree on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:40:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feelfree, sorry to say so (none / 0)

Again, you think the DNC not rebuking McCain is worse than... McCain?

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:45:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How do we beat the b**ch? Excellent question. (2.00 / 1)

Here's the difference - the blogger saying nasty stuff about Hillary Clinton is not running for president. John McCain, however, is indeed running for president, so that's why we care about his sexist comments in terms of deciding whether to vote for McCain or Obama.

by ProfessorReo on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:09:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How do we beat the b**ch? Excellent question. (none / 0)

Should I even bother taking a quick peek to what they said about Hillary on Republican forums?

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:40:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Could not agree more - Obama (2.00 / 2)

People wonder why we say Obama's campaign has been sexist:

January 14, 2008 -- PRESIDENTIAL hopeful Barack Obama claims to run a clean campaign, but someone in his camp took a swipe at Hillary Clinton through the candidate's theme song.

As Obama and his wife, Michelle, strolled triumphantly into his victory party in Des Moines, Iowa, on Jan. 3, Jay-Z's "99 Problems" was blaring. In it, Jay raps, "I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't one."

Some listeners took it as a not-so-sly reference to Hillary.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:32:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could not agree more - Obama (none / 0)

This was debunked months ago. There is video of Obama's entrance at the Des Moines victory party, and Jay-Z is nowhere to be heard.

Know the difference between the Post and toilet paper? Toilet paper doesn't leave ink on your bum.

by jere7my on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:58:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well he talks about Jay Z a lot (1.00 / 0)

And one video does not disprove it.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:11:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well he talks about Jay Z a lot (none / 0)

Actually it does. There's a video floating around with "99 Problems", and then an identical video with background noise, people talking, and no song.

But he says he likes Jay Z. Can't argue with that.

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:46:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How many victory parties (1.00 / 0)

were there in Iowa? God we're using Bush logic. If one video one minute long with lots of people talking where you can't hear the song shows up, it proves it never played.

He's a fan. And why's he talking up this rapper rapping about bitches like that?

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:39:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How many victory parties (none / 0)

The story you linked to was very specific: it gave a date for the party, it said the song was playing when the Obamas entered. We have videos of the Obamas' entrance at that party on that date, and the song was not playing. The story is wrong.

Also, I haven't heard Obama say anything about Jay-Z; do you have a link to back that up?

by jere7my on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:43:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Try google. (1.00 / 0)

Google "Obama" AND "Jay Z". When he flipped her the bird -- or sorry, when he scratched his face -- he was referencing a Jay Z song.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:36:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Try google. (none / 0)

Okay, this is the second debunked myth you've posted in this thread. For the record, we have a second camera angle of the infamous scratch that shows he was not flipping anybody the bird. Both of the stories you've posted have been disproven, soundly, with hard evidence. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt -- perhaps you just hadn't heard that these stories were false. But make no mistake; they are.

Googling per your suggestion, I mostly found references to the same two debunked non-issues you've raised here. I did find one quote from Obama on the subject:

'Senator Barack Obama disclosed that while he prefers "Ol' Skool" artists like Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, and Miles Davis, his kids help keep him abreast with the current music scene. "On my iPod, I've got a little bit of Jay-Z and a little bit of Beyonce," said the senator. "A little bit of that stuff. I don't want to pretend that I know as much as my 9-year old or 6-year old daughter."'

Is this what you meant by "talking up"? He doesn't sound like much of a fan to me. He sounds like a dad who's trying to keep up with what the kids like.

by jere7my on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:25:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that story is apocryphal (none / 0)

and probably false. spreading such a rumor as true is beneath you.

by JJE on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:59:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Both candidates (1.00 / 0)

could improve their decorum when people bandy the b-word around.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:40:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Gotta say . . . (none / 0)

A little to snarky for my tastes. I'm an Obama supporter from the beginning (though I held out hope of a Gore run until Iowa) but this kind of thing isn't going to help right now.
I just don't think it's a good idea to badger Clinton supporters right now with the "you don't have a choice" argument.
Don't get me wrong, McCain would be an absolute disaster as a president. As bad, if not worse (if that's possible) than Bush. But to approach that reality in this snarky and somewhat arrogant way isn't going to do us any good.

by EvilAsh on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:12:06 AM EST

You nailed it (2.00 / 1)

"you don't have a choice" is not a persuasive argument. At least right now.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:33:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You nailed it (none / 0)

Yup. Clinton supporters can figure that part out by themselves when the time is right. Right now, it's best for Obama supporters so show why Obama is a damn good candidate that will do Clinton proud, not that he's the only option.

by EvilAsh on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:16:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

it's not a question (none / 0)

of having a choice. I want to get it into as many heads as possible that voting for McCain is not a proper response to Obama's nomination.

by hekebolos on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:15:20 AM EST

Re: it's not a question (2.00 / 1)

What is the proper response?

"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony

by feelfree on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:27:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, if you're interested (none / 0)

in advancing equality, voting for the candidate who opposes the Equal Rights Amendment and will appoint justices who will overturn Roe certainly isn't it.

Voting for the candidate who will advance equality (Obama) would be the best thing. But if you just can't bring yourself to do it, then either don't cast a presidential ballot or vote 3rd party.

by hekebolos on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:32:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it's not a question (none / 0)

Well, if you're so sure that Obama will lose, then your best option is to support him. Hell, you can even vote for McCain or campaign for the guy if you keep your mouth shut. But if Obama loses with a huge percentage of Hillary voters that are actively campaigning against him, that only does her damage.

So even if you think that we can wait four years to get the same things passed that we can right now... which we can't... it still doesn't give you an excuse to start a campaign to unite Clinton supporters against Obama.

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:54:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Quite a few of Obama's followers are equally crazy (2.00 / 1)

Check out the (lengthy and mostly incoherent) comments on this story:

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/04 should-hillary-clinton-be-vice-presiden t#top

Obama's supporters are saying they'll vote for McCain if Clinton becomes the VP. Their guy won the nomination, but rather than see Clinton on the ticket in the mostly ceremonial VP position, they'll vote for McCain. What happened to party unity?

They also seem convinced that if Clinton becomes the nominee, she'll immediately start making plans to kill Obama. The even bring up Vince Foster. Repeatedly.

Supporters on both sides have lost their freaking minds.

by Michigoose on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:19:04 AM EST

The few, the proud... (none / 0)

Supporters on both sides have lost their freaking minds.

The Few:

My guess is that the amount of noise does not represent the amount of people. There was an analysis of hillaryis44 that showed that a tiny percent of folks wrote the vast majority of comments - I think in comment-land such as wsj.com etc you have a huge number of sock puppets making as much stink as possible.

Oh, and Pride Came Before something, can`t remember exactly what it was...

-chris

"A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are for. Sail out to sea and do new things." Admiral Grace Hopper, computer pioneer

by chrisblask on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:28:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Quite a few of Obama's followers are equally crazy (none / 0)

I agree!! And those people will come around too.

I will be honest, there was a time when I thought Clinton was pretty bad myself. That started to fade, but still existed up until Wednesday, and was obliterated when I saw some of her most avid supporters turn the page. If Hillary is supporting the party over herself, I will fully support Hillary in anything she does. I have learned a great deal about her in this primary cycle. I think she has learned a lot too. Mostly about how to pick your friends wisely.

I once said that if it were Clinton on the Dem side, I'd vote Republican. And damn, was I stupid. Oddly enough, it was kos that first started me turning the corner when he said that it wasn't Hillary he had a problem with, it was her handlers and campaigners. And once I started seeing things like that, the world made a lot more sense.

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:00:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

kos has been pretty bad (2.00 / 2)

the skin-darkening faux scandal was bad.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:35:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: kos has been pretty bad (none / 0)

Hey, I've been hanging around here. I stopped looking at Kos months ago (might go back now that we're getting back to normalcy). But it was something he said, and I think it was something he meant.

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:01:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How do we beat the b**ch? Excellent question. (2.00 / 7)

check your email more often. everyone else had their diaries up hours ago.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/6/18152 /96421

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/6/19364 6/5507

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/6/18152 /96421

by campskunk on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:51:55 AM EST

Re: How do we beat the b**ch? Excellent question. (none / 0)

I realize you might dislike dissenting opinions but that certainly does not justify a TR. Kindly explain your TR rating.

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/6/5/95 122/72809/39?mode=alone;showrate=1#39

Gobama!

by USArmyParatrooper on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:58:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

first of all (none / 0)

your assertion that we had email instructions to write these diaries is offensive.

Secondly, I have elaborated far beyond the one video that is the most obvious to include several other examples.

Lastly, I differ from the two examples you cite in not just attacking John McCain, but in making those who would contemplate voting for him just to spite what they view as a sexist Obama campaign seriously think twice.

by hekebolos on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:48:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Wrong way to go about it" (none / 0)

Seriously. How is blasting McCain for obvious sexism the wrong way?

Gobama!

by USArmyParatrooper on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:28:52 AM EST

it could probably start (none / 0)

we you and those like you admitting to the ingrained sexism in our culture that HRC supporters have noticed since day one of this primary season. It was never about the sexism coming from the Obama camp, but rather the denial coming from those who supported him during the primary.

by linc on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:52:33 AM EST

Re: it could probably start (none / 0)

We can't disentangle the arguments. To you it was never about the sexism coming from the Obama camp, but to others when he dusted his shoulder off it was proof positive that he was a sexist.

For example. It's not easy to fend off 5 different people all with slightly different points. And there was racism directed at Barack Obama.

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:51:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

no matter what offfenses you claim (none / 0)

they were no worse than what the Obama camp went through with Ferraro, Rendell and the like.

And yet you continue not to focus on the main point of the diary: that given what we already know about McCain and his irrationally sexist behavior, any statement of support for McCain over Obama is not at all designed to get a non-sexist candidate, but is rather designed to punish Obama for having defeated Hillary and having thus delayed the long-held dream of Madame President.

by hekebolos on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:00:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How do we beat the b**ch? Excellent question. (none / 0)

And don't forget what he called his wife that one time.

I think it rhymes with hunt.

by Searching For Pericles on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 04:03:36 AM EST

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